The Dark Knight vs. Revenge of the Sith
Wednesday July 23, 2008
Like any critic who dared to show themselves less than impressed with Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight juggernaut, I caught a lot of abuse for my dismissive review. Being called a mouth-breathing mountain dweller and a hat-wearing Brooklynite is all in the game, as they say (I live in Astoria, Queens) -- but when my nerd cred was insulted, I knew it was time for the ultimate fanboy throwdown: The Dark Knight vs. my favorite film of 2005, George Lucas's much-maligned pop masterpiece Revenge of the Sith. Read why Star Wars beats Batman in every respect -- and then I'll promise to return to your regularly scheduled coverage of art house films, including the lovely In Search for a Midnight Kiss, Johnny To's Mad Detective, and the much anticipated Fear(s) of the Dark. [posted by Jürgen]
Comments
Also known as “How to Destroy Your Pop-Culture Credibility in 11 Easy Paragraphs.”
Well yes, I know it’s not a popular opinion. But that doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
I don’t know you or anything but this whole article comes of looking like a very bitter and jealous Star Wars fan.To give every catagory to SW(I don’t think the most biased SW fan would do that) and to compare them at all even.I think you may be to close to the forest to see the trees as alot of your conclusions and comparisons are just weird.At the end of the day the PT will go down as the biggest disapointment in movie history and the Dark Knight will go down as a really good movie that people will talk about for a long time.
This is why Film criticism is dead,everybody sounds like ranting fanboys.
Nice fakepost. The lack of acknowledging the concept of a series reboot gives it away though.
You’re warped! Lucas lost his mind years ago. The new Star Whores flicks suck! The only saving grace of the whole series is Ewan MacGregor. The Dark Knight is definitely of a higher caliber than Lucas’ latest atrocities. Batman kicked much posterior in comparsion. Get real.
Amen!
Revenge of the Sith, and the new Star Wars movies in general were overlooked for their political insights in regards to how fascism comes to power
I can’t believe so much energy is wasted arguing over a movie. It’s entertainment people… to each his own. I disagree 100% with this critic’s opinion… but alas it’s only one person’s OPINION… and opinions are like (you know what). Everyone has one - even if they stink. I’m sure all of you have at one time had someone disagree with your opinion. Just be happy that a movie is actually good enough to evoke deep emotions and reflection… the true purpose of all art.
You are absolutely the most biased Star Wars fanboy ever. Chirst, were you even paying attention to Nolan’s masterpiece? No. All you were doing in that theater is thinking in that head of yours “Star Wars! Star Wars! Star Wars!” while munching on pop corn. God. Retire as a critic. Face it. The Dark Knight was better in every aspect. The acting was superior, atleast Batman didn’t act a mannequin like Anakin did. The action sequences were far better. Last but not least, in the end, there was a morale tribute to Batman while in Episode III we all heard a cheesy “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO” that officially ruined Episode III.
Star Wars Epsiode III is subpar when compared against The Dark Knight.
You know, I’ve heard that complaint about the “Nooo!” a lot, but I don’t quite understand it. Here’s a man who has betrayed his friends, committed mass murder, thrown the galaxy into turmoil and war, failed in all his ambitions, lost most of the powers that made him special, all to save his love, and he just found out that she is dead, too — because of him. What was he supposed to say? “Oh well, let’s get donuts?” There really is nothing else he could’ve said.
Also, most people who bring up this argument like to praise “The Empire Strikes Back”, conveniently forgetting that Vader’s “Noo!” in “Sith” is an echo of Luke’s “Nooo!” when he tells him he’s his father. The “Nooo!” in “Empire” didn’t officially ruin that movie, did it?
I think that the “NOOOOOO!” when paired with the cheesy, overly obvious Frankenstein camera angle and the emo-Vader snifflings just a moment prior … did it. That “NOOOOO!” became a trumpet heralding the dignity of Star Wars.
Dark Knight was FAR from a perfect film, with a lot of expository dialogue that was Lucas-worthy. Still–it was tonally on, featured the best comic book screen villain portrayal ever, and had a brutal worldview that registered as real. Sith’s only saving grace was that it was slightly better than the two absolute turkeys that preceded it.
I can’t believe you missed the opportunity to compare Harvey Dent’s fall from grace to that of Anakin (other than the cursory mention in the Palpatine V Joker part). How did that stack up comparatively? Let me guess. Whereas you didn’t believe that facial scarring and the death of a loved one was enough to turn Dent into a vengeful arbiter of cruel justice … Anakin was absolutely believable! After all his stalker-love for Padme knew no bounds, and of course he’d start whacking off master Jedi’s hands and slice n’ dicing younglings! Guuuh!
Bravo, Jurgen….well-thought out and well-written article. There is someone else out there who understands the Star Wars saga. A refreshing read of Lucas’ brilliant saga. Thanks for making my day…
The Force is with the true Star Wars fans….as for those of you who grew up and don’t understand it, your loss…
B
Whilst I did really enjoy The Dark Knight, I don’t think it was worth the hype. And whilst I really did enjoy Episode III, I did find some of it a bit too ham-fisted.
That said, this article puts together a solid argument. I’d actually agree with most of it.
I too thought that last Star Wars film was unduly criticized and not seen for the great film that it is, but there’s no need to tear down the genuinely superior Dark Knight to illustrate your point. That’s just crazy talk. Batman’s world is not as clean-cut with easy answers. Ledger’s Joker is more disturbing because he lacks motivation other than chaos. Now that’s really creepy in a way that can keep you up at night.
Too many critics have this black-and-white view of things. One can appreciate both Nolan and Lucas. It is immature to believe otherwise. It’s articles like this that scream for immediate attention and gets it at the expense of turning off future readers.
Wowzers! I can’t believe this column. To be fair I loved ROTS, but TDK is overhyped?!
Waiting for and seeing the TDK has been the only geeky movie fun I’ve had in the last three years really. In fact, the only other movie that I can recall looking forward too and being rewarded in the end was TDK.
Can’t we all just get along?!
It’s ironic Jurgen, that you would pump this out while getting raked over a cheese grater for your review of TDK. You seemed to take the rebuttals very personally, even though 80% of the negative replies were simply because you put a spoiler in your review, something all professional reviewers shouldn’t do. It was Bushe League, and instead of admiting it, you just fixed the article and then acted like it was no big deal. All you had to do was admit blame. But no, instead you feed your own ego with this wonderful article here. I love your “analysis” of opinion statements followed with no evidence or examples.
Furhter more, you don’t even compare similar points. How are Anakin and Batman comparable? One is a hero, one is not. They both lose their family. One chooses to maintain his morality, and fight for justice. The other one decides Genocide is the way to go. They both lose their girl, through the deciet of someone else. One sacrifices himself, his image for the good of his city. The other plays a hand in slaying all of his co-workers, usurping a governemnt, and becoming one of the most prolific murderes in a galaxy far, far, away. Now which of those sounds like the better hero?
I’m sorry live action doesn’t seem real to you. I don’t know how much more real you can get than flipping a truck over. I mean, they really did that, you know that right? Theyreally flipped a truck over on a chicago street. The explosion at the hospital, guess what, that’s real too. They had one shot to film it right, with Ledger walking out in front of real explosions behind him. I guess my point is, how does a deep voice cause a disconect with reality for you, however staring at a blue screen with the occasional live actor for 2.5 hours doesn’t? The old star wars looked great using models, costumes, and make up. It looked real. Jabba was actually on his throne, his little butt monkey really looked like it was laughing. Jar Jar, the sets, the CGI (so 99% of the new movies) looked like a Video game, it’s impossible to think that’s really happening. I guess I still prefer actual live stunts, to a video game movie.
Finally, and probably most importantly, action by itself is just flashy and stupid, like a Micheal Bay film. If you don’t care about the characters, if you’re not invested in them, all the action in the world doesn’t make a difference. I wasn’t on the edge of my seat at the “exciting” conclusion of ROTS. You already know what happens in both light saber fights, before the first blow is struck. Worse, because of the stiff performances we don’t really care about these characters anyway, at least I didn’t.
And for the record, how many light sabre fights can you see before they really lose their luster. There were three battles total in the old trilogy, Vader-Obi-Wan, Vader-Luke, and Vader-Luke. And most of those fights were moderatly introspective and filled with dialogue (and decent dialouge at that) about right and wrong, and the saving of thy soul. There’s none of this in the new one, it’s just constant fighting, two sabers banging on each other. It got really old, really fast. The Jedi/Sith on normal people action got pretty dull too. How many times do we need to see a Jedi block a laser blast? Wow, even after the 500 times before it, i wasn’t sure Anakin would be able to block 501. Thank god he did, really, I wasn’t sure he was going to survive the movie. The only sequence in the entire bad trilogy that was decent was the saber fight at the end of Phantom Menace, because at least you don’t know what happens to two of the characters involved right then. After that, it’s all just a documentary, the VH1 “Before he was Vader”. Actually that would have been more intertaining. They could have interviewed Obi-Wan and Yoda for 3 straight movies. At least then Lucas wouldn’t have demystified characters like the Emperor and Yoda while chasing the almighty buck.
Dark Knight’s lines were cheesy? that one had me laughing for a bit. The Dark Knight had wonderful dialogue in dark knight was incredible. plus, in the end, the Joker did win. he wanted to prove that even Batman could became as mad as him. he proved that even a true hero can be pushed to the brink of insanity.
genre? hero tries to stop villain, villain pushes hero to the brink of madness. star wars? oh, let’s get some more money with another useless film that only tells us something we’ve figured out by now.
action? were you playing in the arcade during the first robbery scene? that my friend to me, was one of the finest action moments of the year. star wars just offers that same ol’ lightsaber battle crap.
visual factor? at least dark knight was real scenery and not another downloaded piece of junk of the internet!
heroes? sure batman had a weird voice, but he was Batman! you had to enjoy him! oh! and get the hint of why he hates dogs? because he prefers cats… get the hint? guys, get ready to see catwoman (not halle berry) in Batman 3(tentative title). plus, i got bored of Anakin after Return of the jedi.
villains? do i even need to talk about this one? the Joker was always unpredicatable. palpatine? we knew all his moves from the beginning. obviously, The Joker has obviously kicked Doc Ock off of the #1 supervillain rank. plus, nearly all the Joker’s lines had a meaning.
romance: star wars; too cheesy and ugh! Dark Knight: Harvey /rachel and Bruce? twists and turns, and just how we like it.
dialogue? first off, all of Yoda’s lines were cheesy. i swear, if i hear do or do not, there is no try again, i’m gonna scream. the dark knight’s? excellent. genius.
plot? for star wars, we know the whole thing from the beginning of 1977. Dark Knight? we didn’t know where it would end up, and that’s what made it exciting. oh, and were you brain-dead when there was a quick scene of Harvey Dent’s funeral? cause yeah, he did die.
political themes? dark knight was terrorism sure, but this what we saw, was as if we were seeing pure evil in real life. star wars goes with the same ‘ol snoozing politics we all hate.
good vs evil? oh it’s so nice to see little children get slaughtered by the big scary man, isn’t it? HOW CUTE! not. and a Dark Knight is supposed to be a hero. is anakin a hero? no! Batman is darkness. he knows it, he’s been constantly witnessing it, but he is the knight.
the end? why is Batman running daddy? what the kid’s saying is how come a real honest to god hero is running away from his allies, the police? because batman more and likely became like the enemy- the joker. star wars? same ‘ol cheesy ending. same ‘ol cheesy last 3 films! face it- the last 3 star wars films had “suckness” born on it. it was just boring, and predictable.
so in the end, who wins? well if you read the review or if you just scrolled down to the end… Dark Knight. better movie, more “popcorn fun” (god that’s such a cheesy thing to say!) and everything you want in a movie. obviously mr. film critic dude, i bet the oscar people slept through star Wars 3 on deciding the oscars. Dark Knight? i bet they were at the edge of their seats the whole time. so sir, i guess it is a certain fact… YOU’RE TASTE IN MOVIES SUCKS. Sir, i hope you watch the Oscars, because you’ll see Heath Ledger (R.I.P., wonderful man!) get an oscar for best actor, while Dark Knight will EASILY win Best Picture. don’t cry to your mom when that happens.
sincerely,
>:)
Revenge Of The Sith? Really? Look, I’m a STAR WARS fan. I was born in ‘77, and I quite literally grew up on it. I even have a room full of STAR WARS toys. But the idea that Revenge Of The Sith, with it’s contrived and rushed plot, was a better movie than The Dark Knight? Sorry, but it seems like Asif up there hit the nail on the head. Had you been trying to make the case for The Empire Strikes Back, I’d have disagreed, but not by much. Seriously? Revenge Of The Sith? Not even close.
And speaking of “rushed”, my sincere apologies for the incorrectly inserted apostrophe. Yes, it’s the internet, but I make my living editing others’ copy. Yikes! That should be its contrived and rushed plot, damn it.
This review is so biased. The dorky star wars crap is over. All you pitiful star wars geeks need to stop playing dress up and come to realization that a legendary super hero is now holding the top spot. Star wars is sooooooooo uncool compared to Bat Man and the “Bat Man universe”.
Star wars is cheesy and sucks
It’s all about perspective, and Jurgen is dead on. The Dark Knight was a fantastic take on one of the greatest superheroes of all time. Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith is the finale of the greatest story ever told on the sliver screen. Period.
George Lucas is a genius. Always has been when it comes to the saga of Skywalker…there are things in the prequels that nobody on this list will ever fully appreciate…again, their loss…Star Wars is Forever…and it’s the saga that will always speak to future generations, long after genre fans abandon Batman for the latest dark fad in movie theatres…
First of all, I’d like to praise you for praising ROTS; while maybe not as good as the original trilogy, a huge improvement over the first 2. Second, I’d like to post a few points that I respectfully disagree with you on, since this is all about freedom of opinion.
The main thing wrong with ROTS was probably the dialog. “Anakin, you’re breaking my heart.” Gosh, really!? “From my point of view the jedi are evil!” A little too obvious. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the subtlety of events leading to his fall to the dark side, but when the disaster we’ve been waiting for finally happens we get lines we’ve heard before in bad action movies. Their delivery is not necessarily bad, yet I don’t think it can compare to TDK, which will probably win the Oscar because it seems to always go to the movie that tries to be the most melodramatic.
Palpatine is not better than the Joker, at least not in ROTS. One of the main things that pissed me off in that movie was his portrayal in the battle of the heroes. THE DARK LORD OF THE SITH DOES NOT GET HIS ASS HANDED TO HIM SEVERAL TIMES BY YODA, NOR DOES HE LOOK SO STUPID WHEN IT HAPPENS! Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
Speaking of the Joker, I wanted to see him go splat as much as anybody, but they were intending to bring him back next movie before Ledger died. They could have added that in CGI, but the whole movie lacked CGI, so adding that in for a death scene would only have taken away from its realism.
I believe this is a great review. I had a much longer comment written, however I decided that it was pointless to post it since the people arguing against this review are bias towards batman and are probably 12 years old and in there mom’s basement using MS word so they don’t misspell anything. So tho I might disagree with you on a few points, this was a great review, it was nice don’t listen to their stupid, uninformed, childish comments.
I have been a Batman fan only a little longer than I’ve been a Star Wars fan, and I definatley think that the Nolan movies are way better than the first four. But one thing I would have kept would have been the Gothic sturcture of the cityscape. Which you prevoiusly mentioned.
But there is only one thing in your comparison to Revenge of the Sith that really pissed me off.
How did you completely miss the character parallels of both movies. Vader/Anakin does not match up with Batman/Bruce, and Harvey Dent does not match up with Obi-Wan Kenobi. The only thing that is similar between the two is that they both wear black suits, and the other two have similar haircuts. If there is anyone that Anakin matches up with, it is Two Face. (Bruce and Racheal were friends not lovers. Much like how Obi-Wan and Padme were friends long before Anakin fell in love with her. So the relationship parallel is Anakin/Padma & Harvey/Rachael, Bruce is not involved.) Two-Face and Anakin have more things in common than I can count. Here are a few…
#1 They are both on the verge of taking a big step with their relationship (marriage…pregnancy) but end up ruining it in a way they don’t see coming.
#2 Soon after they both become severely burned and scarred which physically reflects the part of their humanity they lost, and the part that was alrady gone to begin with.
#3 They were both corrupted by a person who is the personification of pure evil (Joker/Palpatine.) They can see their inner most fault/demon, exploit it, encourage it, turn them to the dark side and then make them a slave to their own evil.
#4 Because of this, they turn on the true good guy (Batman/Obi-Wan)
#5 They lose their sense of reality and start killing people for their own selfish reasons.
#6 They start out as the best and brightest with a rare gift.
And just to show you one way how Bruce Wayne Compares to Obi-Wan Kenobi…
Neither of them ever did anything wrong. They lived by their morals to the end. It is the world around them that changed for the worse and no longer accepted them for what they were. Gotham no longer needed Batman to be the hero, so he became the dark knight (which by the way doesn’t mean he has turned to the dark side, it means he does what he believes is right, even when every single person tells him he is wrong.) Which is similar to what happened to Obi-Wan. The people of the galaxy needed to believe that the Jedi were responsible for everything that went wrong with the Galactic Republic, so the once great protectors became outcasts to society, no longer accepted, but would wait and continue to do the right thing until the right time came to strike back and prove that they were right all along. Which is what Obi-Wan and Yoda did with Luke Skywalker….create a new hero out of the ashes of the old. (The old hero adapted to the new environment) Which is also what Batman must do in order to regain his previous social rank among the citizens of Gotham. My guess is that this will be the main plot line of a new Nolan Sequel.
Perosnally loved both films. While batman packed a much more wow punch alot of the stuff i never saw coming rachel dying woah.
Star wars 3 was alot more different we knew anakin will be vader Padme will die the younglings windu will suffer and what makes i good is the fact that it takes what we know and still goes GOTCHA! Lucas surpirsed me with his treatment showing old friend and linking things together.
The dark Knight is different in the sence that he already is dark. Anakin grew dark. The Joker braught batman down. The Emporor Btought Anakin down face it… they’re alot alike… more so then we think.
I made an epically long post about how much you fail in this review, and then the review form failed me and deleted it. Double fail.
Putting aside how this is the best movie of the year, or much much longer in terms of Batman Begins overcoming the wretched screaming mutant children of the underworld that were forever and robin(apparently you didn’t know that Begins was a remake??),
and overcoming the idea that comic book movies have to be like the golden age comics and have *POW!* *ZAP!* sound effects for every fight, villains and henchman that look like Disco inferno rejects with unused Married with children scripts for lines and plots about as complex as those on the backs of cereal boxes for say, Tony the Tiger or Cap’n Crunch, and then going on to top it’s predecessor several times over to an epic, masterpiece of a dark hero film, basically the Godfather of comic movies, does not impress you….
Different strokes is all I can say, I guess.
I’ve been able to “enjoy” some things about Star Wars I-III, particularly obi wan and Qui Gon Jin, and the battle with darth maul. It’s great to see a real lightsaber duel in star wars finally.
And I can enjoy movies with either less of an established awesome saga to ruin(Hellboy) which are just cheesy for the sake of cheese, or Median movies that toe the line between fun cheese and art, like Iron Man…which I think is what you were expecting with the Dark Knight. Iron man is far more visually exciting, as you constantly rag on TDK for not being, it’s more catch phrases and epic poses and less philosophizing, and it still has a really solid characterization and dialogue, particularly with Downey Jr. as Iron Man.
Now, comparing Star Wars to Dark Knight and having it win every time: sacrilege.
Apples and oranges anyways, but the prequel saga is an epic fail on it’s own merit compared to the originals anyways, and wholeheartedly throws out any attempt at real characterization or plot or ..well, really anything of substance for a half-baked minefield of cliches and stuff for kids, like the atrocity that was Jar Jar, or the character, hogging the entire three movies practically, of young Darth Vader, who was frankly less connectable than the droids, and that’s saying something. You enjoy fast, flashy, substance-less summer popcorn flicks that aren’t too thought-provoking and don’t worry about plot or writing much, fine. Stick to those then, don’t try and stick your fanboy nose into interesting movies that actually seek to overcome those limitations and present an actual morality and compare them with dreck that revels in substanceless whiz-bang cg and throws out plot and dialogue and actual emotion, like TDK.
I’ll quit harping now.
How the hell did u get this job . . .
Lol.
I don’t really like the Dark Knight, not saying it sucks but it’s just not a movie i enjoyed.
I’ll be honest, i’m a star wars fan and of course i’ll say revenge of the sith is better but, come on people act like the jokers appearance was the second coming of jesus christ. if heath ledger were alive it’s hype wouldn’t of been the magnitude that it is.
Episodes 4 & 5 of star wars were great movies that were new & original, with no crappy cgi. 6 was a decent end, but ruined by lucas’ attempt to younger kids by bringing in the retarded ewoks. Empire reigns that trilogy and i think personally has more in common with Tdk, than Rots. Episode 1 was visually stunning but still too much cgi and lack of originality. Two much child crap from lucas. Episode 2- a little better but not by much. And 3- better than tho se two. But the slow, crappy dialouge and overdone cgi took so much away from the focus of the plot(s). Revenge of the sith, did reign supreme for that trilogy. And the fight scenes were incredible in all 6. Overall, i liked the star wars movies. But i am a batman fan. And as stated, Batman Begins and TDK rebooted the franchise. They have nothing to do with the first 4, so thats out. TDK is a realistic styled movie that brings you fully into the gritty batman comics from the 1980s starting with batman year one, etc. Star wars is fantastical, and is less realistic. And Lucas did not do a great job with episodes 1-3 as compared to 4-6. He should have stayed with the creative style of 4-6 when he started 1-3. Chris Nolan is far better than Lucas nowadays in terms of his Batman franchise. Lucas rab out of ideas and rushed his second trilogy of star wars whereas Nolan takes his time developing storylines and- no cgi or very little. The way Gotham looks in Batman (1989) & TDK are both relevant to the comics cannon, thats just a personal opinion. Now, if you compare episodes 4 & 5, to Nolans first two Batflicks, thats a close call… Lucas pushes the envelope with originality and drama, just like Nolan. But to say Sith was better than The Dark Knight- um… I, uh- NO. Sorry.